Monday, February 9, 2009

CHAPTER 4 PROMPT:

“Here, invisible yet strong, was the taboo of the old life. Round the squatting child was the protection of parents and school and policemen and the law. Roger’s arm was conditioned by a civilization that knew nothing of him and was in ruins.”

Discuss the significance of this quotation and how it applies to the novel thus far.

27 comments:

  1. This quote shows significance to the book so far because it is showing that even though the boys are by themselves with no adult supervision,they still know what they should and should not. Since they still hold back from doing the things they would normally want to do when they can't,it shows that when no one is there to discipline them, it makes the actions that would normally get them in trouble less fun. Also, it's saying that even though the children themselves are becoming less civilized, they still have a something telling them that they should not intentionally do things that will hurt the others.

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  2. This quote reveals both how the savage natures of the boys are beginning to make themselves obvious, but also how some shreds of civility remain. The act of throwing rocks at a small boy is something no civilized person would do, and it reveals how being on the island alone without any rules is stripping the boys of their morals and values. However, the fact that none of the rocks thrown hit the smaller boy shows that while ethics are largely being disregarded, they are not completely gone. The values that have been deeply ingrained by the English culture still remain, such as the sanctity of life. However, as is later revealed through Jack's killing of the first pig, even these values are beginning to slip away.

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  3. This passage is significant becuase it shows that as of yet, the boys have not yet left their past life behind. while they know no policeman is on the island they are still afraid that they will get in trouble. also they are not past what there parents have told them and while not acting 100% good they still know whats right and whats wrong. also it shows that since people still think like this, people will still follow Ralph becuase they are still of that mindset. I belive that if he actally hit the kid with the rock, he will be so far gone from civilzation he will not follow ralph and find a new leader and break off from ralph

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  4. This quote is very significant in the passage. It shows how although the boys are starting to become wild, almost brutal, from the lack of supervision and discipline, the once known behavior is still binding them to the rules they had once learned before becoming stranded. In the previous society that the boys lived in, if Roger had thrown rocks at a child, or person in general, he would have been punished by his superiors- adults. This quote shows that the concept of rules and punishment are still evident to Roger as he throws rocks because he does not hit the boy, but also shows that the civilized nature that he once once grasped is starting to get pushed towards its limits at the realization that there is no adult to hold the punishment against him.

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  5. This quote is significant because it reflects the societal conditioning inflicted upon the subject Roger's cognitive thought process and his conditioning towards the difference between right and wrong being broken down through the invasion of primal instinct that is occurring en mass to the boys on the island.This event of roger even tossing these rocks at the boy suggests sadistic and clinically psychopathic tendencies That were classically conditioned through society and operant[sp] conditioning through parental figures.This throwing of the rocks suggests a spiraling un-conditioning of the the boy's higher social function and reducing him to his primal and sadistic urges.This breakdown of learning shows the effect that will be evident in future endeavors in the book.

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  6. This quote is very signifigant in this passage. This quote shows that the boys have disregarded all the prior rules of living in a civilized enviorment. They exhibit this when they throw the rocks at the young boy, although none of the rocks hit the young boy, the other boys felt bad and knew it was wrong what they did. This shows that they still know how to act civilized, but are just ignoring the morals and values that they were taught back in England. It may be that their are no adults on the island or that there is no set rules, but the boys are starting to lose contact with the way they grew up in England. In conclusion, this quote exhibits how the boys on the island are starting to lose contact with the morals and values of everyday life back in England.

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  7. The quotation is significant as that it shows that after all that has happened, the boys still maintain there identity as proper Englishmen-in-training, and that the rules are still basically in effect.

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  8. Roger represents the civilization etched in all the boys through his self-restraint in this quotation. Although all of them are on an island, alone, without discipline, their values from civilization remain, instilled in them from years of rules and consequences. Although these values are still present, I believe that soon the boys will begin to deteriorate until none of them give a second thought to any action. Once Jack starts to kill pigs freely, other boys will start to follow him in his breaking away from conscience and moral, until there is none left on the island.

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  9. This passage represents what is left of the boys civility on the island. Although they are alone with no authority this passage shows that shreds of their old life still remain. Although this shows some restraint, the fact that Roger is even throwing rocks at little kids shows that the savage nature of the island is starting to take affect

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  10. This quote is significant because it shows how even though things are starting to get rowdy on the island, and there is minimal to no consequence of an action, the people stranded on it still maintain some of their old morals. Even though Roger threw a rock, he did not hit the other boy which is evidence that old concepts of punishment and discipline still linger in his mind. However, self control could eventually start to wear on the people stranded on the island and if this were to reoccur in a few chapters, Roger could potentionally actually hit the boy with the rock. This quote is foreshadowing complete chaos and corruption of what is being done in order to survive on the island.

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  11. By this quotation, it shows that the individual morals of ones past in ROger's mind, has not been forgotten, it shows that despite the isand, being free from adults and punishment and basically free to do what he wants, the morals from the past civilazation, still effect him, which causes him to purposely miss when he throws the rock. I think also that Roger has abandoned hope or that William Golding, has planted the thought of despair into the thoughts of the reader- when it says that the past cilivazation had forgotten roger and was in Ruins

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  12. This quote is very significant to the story thus far. It shows that even though the boys are begginning to disregard some of their manners prior to the island, some of their good habits remain. The quote shows that even though there is no discipline, and no adults, the boys still show signs of civilized behavior. For example, when Ralph was throwing the rocks, the other boys knew it was wrong but they did not do anything to help. They have those values instilled in them, they just choose not to act on them.I do not believe that this form of civilized behavior will last for long and soon there will be complete chaos.

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  13. The main conflict of the novel is society vs. savagery. The quote shows that currently, society has the upper hand, yet savagery is still apparent. Roger feels savage enough to throw stones at the younger boy without apparent reason yet he still feels constrained by the rules enough to not actually hit him. It is simply a semi-physical representation of the major conflict of the book.

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  14. This quote shows that the boys still have a little bit of civility left in them, even though they are becoming more savage and wild. Bits and pieces of society still remain embedded in them, although they have no super vision. Parts of thill old life virtues and rules still remain a part of them. Only as they are exposed to more freedom from an adult's watchful eye does their growing savagery become more evident. This can also be seen when Maurice flings sand in Percival's eye. "In his other lifetime, Maurice had received chastisement for filling a younger eye with sand. Now,though there was no parent to let fall a heavy hand, Maurice still felt the unease of wrongdoing..."(Pg. 60).

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  15. this shows how the kids are still obeying the rules they had to follow in their old lives and that they're having trouble letting go of those lives

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  16. This quote is saying that even though the kids are alone on the island without a responsible adult they are able to remember wat rules n regulations they had at their homes and such. The kids are very smart in realizing that they had to do this to keep everything non chaotic.

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  17. Thus far, the boys are trying to construct a civilized society with structure and order. Roger's violence towards the littl'uns is the first sign of the breaking down of their building civilization. Although Roger is exhibiting physical violence, the pyschological underminings of his past social standards are still etched in his head. The "protection of parents and school and policemen and the law" is what makes Roger throw the rocks purposefully away from the littlun. The holes that are starting to appear in their civilization is the first sign of a decline in order and the first step toward increased savagery.

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  18. The significance of this quote is that although the kids maybe losing control, there are signs of order in their behavior and thoughts. Roger knows that what he is doing is against what society normally does. His old life binds and controls his actions. Roger and the other boys are so used to their old, civilized life that this new, strange shift is making them lose control. This goes to show that their original life style is fading away as the novel continues.

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  19. This quotation is conspicuous because it corroborates how there is still a scant amount of civility. The cordial behavior of the boys is gradually dissipating. Conjointly, this shows that Roger was at least somewhat civilized previous to being stranded on the island when there were adults to assist in guiding the adolescents down a humane and complaiant path. Now that Roger is away from persons of authority he can take control of what he feels the desire to, to satisfy his craving. To summarize, the quotation is delineating a change in power and increase in savagery as his binding to his "old life" depreciating.

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  20. This quotation is very significant to the story thus far because it shows what their life used to be like when they were at home and addresses the fact that every source of protection that they had at home is gone. They have been living with these protections and are having trouble getting used to a world without justice, and a world without law enforcement. Since they are used to a world with justice, they try to recreate their own law enforcement. But no one in the group is an effective leader who can successfully maintain order because Ralph and Jack keep arguing about every issue and never get anything done. This happens while the person with the best ideas (Piggy) is always told to "shut up". The series of events occuring at the time of this quotation are examples of how the attaempt of creating of a civilized society on the island did not go as well as they had hoped. When all of the littluns are throwing stones at each other, no one puts a stop to it and the conflict was never resolved because they were unable to establish justice in the society. This series of events is a sign that the boys have taken a step away from the civilized lives that they used to have at home and have taken a step towards savagery.

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  21. This quotation signifies the boys’ steady decline to a savage society, as well as their conscious awareness of what is right and what is wrong. The general guidelines are still being somewhat applied, as Roger stays careful not to throw the rocks within “the space round Henry, perhaps six yards in diameter”. Roger’s urges to pelt the stones at Henry are overcome by the “invisible yet strong… taboo of the old life”. This scene, however, foreshadows that the boys will soon lose their moral sense of civilization and ethics. They will become savages, using violence, force, and torture as instincts. They will soon disregard “the protection of parents and school and policemen and the law” and will yeild to a battle of survival of the fittest.

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  22. The significance of this quotation is that civil values are still present in a savage environment, where there are no boundaries. Roger acts barbaric as he pelts rocks at Maurice, for no reason at all. The fact that Roger missed as he was throwing rocks, confirms that Roger feels as if a civil bond is still being held to prevent him from being a savage. This restraint is an “invisible yet strong” taboo that parents, schools, and the law have instilled in the kids. The others kids such as Ralph and Piggy have not forgotten this as they establish order and power through government. That government is beginning to fall apart as they are exposed more savagery on the island. For example, Jack was just a choir student and when he needed to survive he killed a pig. Survival causes the kids to succumb to become barbarians and thus slowly losing attachment to civil values.

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  23. There is no constant watch over the boys' actions in the wilderness, but Roger's sadistic behavior is restrained by a thread of civility he grew up with from the "old life". The quotation reveals that while the boys loose control as they relish their freedom, they still remember the old rules and discipline. In comparison to the overall novel thus far, Roger's behavior is a sample of the novel's theme of society versus savagery.

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  24. The significance of this quote pretty much shows how authority and the concept of right from wrong played a huge roll in the childrens' lives up to this incident. And even though the kids have no parental guidance or adults to actually enforce rules, they know better than to do something they would have gotten into a lot of trouble for back home now.

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  25. in this quotation, ti is evident that the boys are testing the waters so to speak and seeing what they can and can't get away with. had they been at home, they would have gotten int serious trouble for doing something like throwing rocks at another child. but, here on the island, they are beginning to realize the implications of the fact that there are no adults around. roger is just throwing the rocks near the little'un just to see if he will get into any trouble. when he realizes that he is not being reprimanded, roger will probably aim a little bit closer to the little'un each time he does this until he finally gets into trouble. if he never receives a punishment, then he will continually aim closer and closer until one time he will eventually hit the little'un. roger will have no reason to stop doing this and since it is fun for him, he will continue doing it. i also think that it is going to escalate from throwing rocks, to something a little bit worse and that it will only go up from there getting worse and worse until somebody gets seriously injured or even killed. and we can only hope that that event will be the top and not just another rung on the ladder of their evil ways.

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